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Losing patience with Nev
Spot on Ashley Metcalfe. I would like to expand a little on why Neville doesn’t get it. Simply cause he never had the honour of playing in a toxic atmosphere, where the manager would regularly throw players under the bus and form petty squabbles which would conclude in players getting frozen out of the team. The way they side with the manager, even blatantly toxic ones drives me crazy.
On Jose Mourinho himself, Ferguson gradually became the big ego over many years of success and building things from the ground up, but Mourinho expected this godlike respect from practically day one and then when it wasn’t received blamed it on some sort of millennial snowflakery. Fact is Mourinho is the biggest snowflake around, completely bereft of responsibility and incapable of taking it on the chin.
On another not, why is it always Liverpool fans that firmly assert that Berbatov was a flop for United? I thought he was spectacular on his day, especially those four goals.
Jamie M.
Ref strike
I wholeheartedly agree with John, and would completely back a strike from the Refs in order to change the way in which refs are treated by players/staff and fans. However, I feel such a strike won’t work until, unfortunately, something terrible happens, leaving us with no choice to change.
For a strike to work, the refs would have to be supported by one of the clubs (players etc.), the fans, or the FA. The players wouldn’t outright support it, because they would basically have to admit that they have been culpible in there behaviour for far too long, and accept the blame, and I do not see that happening. With regards to the fans, I feel that those who would support it would be outnumbered by the abusive fans, who chalk their behaviour off as “banter” and feel the refs should just “take it like a man”. So ultimately, this leaves us with the FA. But who actually thinks they would come out and support Refs if they striked? Similar to the players, it would be terrible for them, because they would have to admit their own culpability in allowing this abuse to reach this level, so I feel that they wouldn’t back it publically, which is a shame.
However, to drift for a moment, if the FA did back it, the way to fix this behaviour long term, seems quite clear and straightfirward to me;
– the FA back the strike and say that the abuse refs recieve from fans,players at all levels of the game is not acceptable
– mic up the refs, ala Rugby, so that everyone can hear the refs and players. I’ve often thought the air of infalabilty and secrecy the FA stow upon the refs adds to the abuse, plus we can hear what the players say to the ref
– issue sin bins/red cards for any player other than the captain/player in question talking to the ref during a decision – or any player/staff who abuses the ref (to quickly eradicate the behaviour)
– have the refs explain their logic behind a decision to the captain, and while it might be wrong in hindsight, we understand what the ref was thinking, which gives more emphaty as we understand their reasoning rather than the ref being “biased”
– stop the obligatory post match interviews (still have a press conference), where managers and players are emotional just after a game, and the media look for a soundbite and ask leading questions in the hope to stir a bit of controversy
– as for thr fans, I don’t know how to police that, but I feel if these changes were introduced, over time the culture of abuse would be eradicated.
Sorry for the long winded mail, I jut agree that we need to do something about for the refs!
Néill, Ireland
Ref abuse could be stopped pretty easily?
Great article by John Nicholson as usual.
Having played amateur footy for decades I can’t believe the abuse refs take, I wouldn’t do it for 30 quid or whatever they earn. If the FA made a statement that warned the Premier League players that any sort of questioning of refs decisions would result in a yellow and then before the game this was re-iterated by the refs, and they stuck to it, this would all go away. The moment a team suffered a red or two and it cost them the game, their teammates and manager would soon put a stop to it. It’s key that the FA backs the refs and let a couple of games be ruined as a result, to which they can just say “the players were warned, it’s their fault”. This could then be applied all the way down the pyramid……it must be worth a try?
Degsy
Absolutely correct with your article on refereeing this morning John.
The behaviour is just pathetic at all levels of the game and whenever I saw it during my playing days (sadly now long gone at a competitive level!) I just lost total respect for the people involved, including my own team mates. What I found weird was I would be one of the few to call out team mates and tell them to shut up and get on with things when abusing the ref. No doubt many thought I was being disloyal to my team mate, not being a ‘team player’ but it wasn’t like we were going into battle where, understandably when your life literally depends on it, working as a unit and having complete trust in your fellow soldiers was essential – we were just playing a game of football on a cold, windswept field on a Sunday morning. Grow up!
The other thing that I find utterly ridiculous is something often featured on these pages – namely fans calling a ref biased and either favouring the opposition or being completely against their own. In absolutely none of those games called out will that ref be openly biased against your team. He really won’t. Maybe unconscious bias might creep in (perhaps due to crowd influence for example) but considering it is something they are not aware of (the key word there is ‘unconscious’ guys!) I am not sure what they are expected to do about that and it certainly isnt something they wilfully set out to do.
So please stop. Just desist. It’s pathetic. Just look at the Accrington manager claiming Jon Moss was somehow favouring the ‘bigger’ team over their littlest side in the FA Cup, bless their little cotton socks. He even mentioned that he spoke to Moss afterwards and how Moss just dismissed him as though he was far too important to speak to a lowly League 2 manager. Maybe Moss was just totally fed up with all the cr*p he has to take, and it certainly doesn’t sound like the manager calmly walked up to Moss and politely enquired if he may have a word. Just like JN’s example of when he tried to congratulate the ref at the end of the game, maybe the ref is fed up with thick and utterly self-unaware bell ends sprouting off when all he did was try to make the correct calls in difficult circumstances in a game of football.
Bit of a rant this but something that really grinds my gears. Like Brexit.
Rob, Leicester
Hudson-Odoi’s path to the Bayern first team won’t be easy
Ed the Chelsea fan doesn’t like Callum Hudson-Odoi’s desire to go and play for Bayern Munich based on the fact that ‘there is a chance he’ll be one of next season’s first choice wingers.’
And there is the player’s reasoning. You’d think Loftus-Cheek playing excellently for Palace last year and being part of the England team ‘might’ have seen him play more regularly for Chelsea this season, but instead the new manager dropped £50m on Jorginho and then brought Kovacic on loan just for good measure.
So even if Hazard does go to Real Madrid, and Chelsea are left with ‘only’ Pulisic, Willian, Pedro and Hudson-Odoi, I’d wager they’d likely spend a bit more money on a creative option anyway – to ‘fill the Hazard void’. That’s the Chelsea way. It doesn’t matter who is in the youth team, there’s always a better, shinier option somewhere on the continent for a hefty fee.
They had no patience for Lukaku, and dropped £70m on Morata a couple of years later. It’s not been three years since they sold Salah to Roma and now they’re spending another £50m on Pulisic. KDB wasn’t good enough, so they spent double the money they’d received on Fabregas the next summer. The cycle is endless.
That’s not to say Chelsea aren’t successful – their approach to player/manager turnover has yielded more trophies than most over recent years. But as an 18 year old player with the world seemingly at his feet, why should he trust that he’ll get the chances consistently at this club?
Yesterday Bayern started with Kingsley Coman playing wide, with Alphonso Davies and Serge Gnabry on the bench. Hudson-Odoi’s path to the first team won’t be easy but a) Munich still want him despite their options in attack, b) he seems up for the challenge and c) most importantly, he knows he’s likely to play more minutes.
Chelsea will probably buy him back after the Qatar World Cup for £200m anyway.
Joe, AFC, East Sussex
The FA Cup problem has no solution
I rather enjoyed United’s win on Friday as a pleasant way to start the weekend. Since the mailbox hates mails on United, thought I’d chuck my thoughts on the FA Cup into the mix.
The problem of the bigger teams not taking the FA Cup seriously and forgoing it for a better chance at the top 4/Champions League seems to me purely down to money. Football has become increasingly commercial and the Champions League will always have more viewer draw power (and therefore prize money) than the FA Cup. So there is no change that can be reasonably made to solve this issue totally.
In my view, this would be fine. It would mean that the big clubs either play 2nd string players (giving lose league clubs a chance to sneak through to a final) or they take it seriously which solves the problem anyway. You have some silverware that could reasonably be won by lower league clubs (or lower Premier League clubs) who aren’t going to win anything else.
Reason I say would is because the monstrous TV money in the Premier League is giving us another equation where the numbers don’t work. I’m fine with the top 6 seeing this as a tertiary objective; I think this becomes a bit of an issue when you have the same attitude at the bottom of the Premier League And tip of the Championship.
Only way I see this getting solved is with a radical change to the way TV and other money in the Premier League is distributed lower down the football league. Fat chance I reckon….
Dave, MUFC, Manchester
Sergio Romero
It’s becoming increasingly difficult to write about a United result without dragging up the topic of the full-time managerial job, but I’m going to try my best to avoid it. Instead, I’d like to talk about our goalkeeper (not that one).
I have a lot of love for Sergio Romero. He always has this distinctly vacant look on his face, almost like he’s not sure how he ended up being a professional footbller, while still being one hell of a backup for De Gea. He’s had his moments of course, like getting sent off vs Derby in the League Cup earlier this season, but he’s been largely superb when called upon. I remember him getting some 8 clean sheets out of 9 appearances a couple of seasons ago, which is quite a remarkable statistic. He had yet another great game on Friday, and his save from Ramsey’s header came at a crucial time, just as Arsenal were building up a bit of momentum.
Romero could easily be starting for a number of good clubs out there, but he’s chosen to be our #2, and we’re really lucky to have him imo. I hope he gets another runout in the next FA Cup game (unless it’s City or Chelsea), because he’s really earned it.
DJ, MUFC India
VAR drop ball
Just a quick response to Big Kev’s email about why the game was started with a drop ball and not a corner. The tweet included I the email doesn’t quite clarify the situation.
In short, the ref whistled for a penalty. As soon as he blows his whistle the game is stopped and the ball is dead. Whatever happens after the whistle hasn’t happened within the Laws of the Game. So whilst the ball did go out for a corner from Ampadu’s tackle, it didn’t in terms of the match as the game had been halted. The game therefore has to restart from where the ball was at the time of the whistle and as no foul had been committed it has to start with a drop ball. In my mind though, this should always be contested, can only assume the players choose not too as the ref hasn’t the power to demand it is uncontested.
A VAR overturn doesn’t automatically mean a drop ball though, but in this case it was correct. Say for example the ball had gone out of play before the incident (or a goal) but not been flagged but was clear on the replay, the correct call there after review would be a goal-kick or corner as the incident should never have happened.
Cheers,
Paul, Germany
Youth players
Ed, is so annoyed he wants to run down a youth players contract and make him play with the youth teams as a punishment for dreaming of playing elsewhere.
The first thing that struck me as odd was the statement the he is playing pretty regularly so I had to go and check because this didn’t seem to ring true with me. So let’s have a look and a breakdown of how regularly he has been playing
10 appearances (including the community shield)
5 Starts: 2 Europa League, 2 FA cup and the community shield
5 sub appearance: 2 EL, 3 PL (61 minutes PL in total)
Let’s compare him to another 18 year old English player in the same position playing in Germany, Jadon Sancho
26 Appearances
15 Starts: 12 Bundesliga, 3 CL
11 sub appearances: 7 Bundesliga, 2 CL, 2 DFB Pokal
Additionally 3 appearance for England
Maybe this will help you see why he is looking at pastures new. Yes you are just a biased Chelsea fan. You mention how the fans adore Loftus Cheek but guess what he has only started one PL game this season. At 23 he should be playing regularly. Do you think Hudson-Odoi is maybe looking at him thinking, is that where I will be in 5 years’ time?
Chelsea do not have a record of bringing through youth players to be first team players, I think John Terry is the last one to make the breakthrough to become a regular. Results will always be given priority and ready-made players will be brought in.
Players want to play, no amount of fan adoration is going to keep you warm in the stands while young players wait for their chance when they know even if the impress, they will be back on the bench again next week.
Dan, Belfast
This is starting to bug me…
The idea of Spurs ‘spursing’ up their season is really starting to bug me, and I’m not even a Spurs fan. Some people seem to believe there’s an underlying SOMETHING at the club that means no matter what they do, they will always fail. Brad this morning asks what’s the point in THFC building a new stadium when they can’t win trophies, which is similar to a mailboxer asking a few weeks back why are Liverpool fans preoccupied with winning the league when they’d have a better chance of winning a domestic cup. The answer is ambition. Ambition demands a bigger stadium, higher profile, more sponsors, more money. This is part of the game now.
This same one eyed judgement of Spurs is the same mindset that measures football success in trophies only, which is mental when only one team can which each pot. Poch is simply doing an incredible job and the fact that people are disappointed they’re not winning cups should be evidence of that. Now I will readily admit being knocked out by Palace – the same side that beat City remember – is a kick in the arse but isn’t that the supposed beauty of cup football?
Plus, as a side note, who honestly cares about the cup competitions? Maybe it’s because I’m not English but I get as bored during cup weeks as i do during international weeks. I completely understand managers prioritising the league or Europe. Because of the money being pumped into the league and the fabled UCL riches and prestige, the domestic cups have lost their value. When the reward for winning either is a place in the Europa League and a relative pittance in prize money why take the risk of going balls out to win them? Take Wenger at Arsenal as an example. Lots of FA Cups but in the end not enough because the league is clearly the holy grail. The fact that Spurs are even in the league conversation is amazing considering their resources.
So sure, being knocked out of the cups is bad but look at all the good that has been accomplished. To say a manager, group of players or a club as a whole are succumbing to some type of built-in inevitability that causes them to fail is a nonsense.
Alan, (waiting to be eviscerated in the afternoon mailbox), Córdoba.
Life outside the top six
So this morning Brad Smith (I am guessing Arsenal fan) asked what the point of Spurs was if they didn’t win anything. Does that mean that the entirety of the football league other than basically the big 6 should they win whatever trophy they choose to focus on are pointless?
Personally I feel both domestic cups are pretty much sideshows and have little value, hence why people roll out the B team with them. People trying to call on the romance of the cup are just kidding themselves.
So why watch a team that isn’t going to win something. To be entertained of course! As an individual playing in a sport yes you want to succeed and win, a manager then needs to look at the bigger picture and balance demands, but as a fan we don’t get any of that. Unless the FA are going to deliver a mini cup to every fan of the winning team, then all you have in the end is the entertainment the team gave you, and maybe some bragging rights and a bigger epeen to wave around on message boards.
Stephen Baines
Crystal Palace v Tottenham
Dear Football365,
Not sure about everyone else but I really enjoyed Crystal Palace v Tottenham Hotspur yesterday.
*Before the game, I was expecting Roy Hodgson to pick a side to get knocked out. Not intentionally, but I was surprised to see Andros Townsend and Wilfried Zaha feature. It just seemed like playing a side like Hotspur, whose strongest starting XI would automatically beat Palace’s best lineup, offered a convenient opportunity to bow out of the FA Cup without too much of a fuss being made.
On first glance, it did look as though it would highlight the folly of television companies insisting on showing all-Premier League encounters, given that neither side was at full strength. As mentioned in 16 Conclusions, this approach can go one of two ways: either fringe players show why they don’t play very often, or they impress and force their manager to make tough decisions on future selections. Based on this game, Hodgson will have more faith in his depth players than Mauricio Pochettino.
*Palace lined up in a 4-3-3/4-5-1, with Townsend and Zaha encouraged to stay wide as there was an actual centre-forward on the field. This caused all manner of chaos against Hotspur’s three-man defence and forced Pochettino to change his system at half time. The visitors’ wing-backs were arguably responsible for their worst moments, which is worrying for how many games one of them at least is expected to play.
*If you’re a football fan in any way, shape or form, you have to be happy for Connor Wickham (Hotspur fans can have a moment). His career has been blighted by injuries, often coming just as he was starting to hit goalscoring form. While this goal won’t win awards for aesthetics, in terms of playing the centre-forward role, it was near-perfect – being in the right place at the right time to bundle the ball home.
Of course, while we’re on the subject of Wickham scoring in the FA Cup, let’s revisit this David Squires cartoon.
*Rather more quietly, the three defenders who came into the side had an effective game, perhaps best shown by the only regular starter, Patrick van Aanholt, being the one to give away a penalty kick. You could forgive Joel Ward for having mixed emotions about the club’s situation, and arguably its brightest moment of last season. Having been previously a competent and hard-working full-back, the sort of player you don’t notice on other teams but appreciate on your own, Frank de Boer effectively told him he knew nothing about playing right-back and ostracised him from the first team; though he was recalled by Hodgson, he got injured and his replacement, Aaron Wan-Bissaka, is becoming one of the best right-backs in the Premier League. Despite this, Ward does not seem to have sulked, or tried to engineer a move away. Alongside him, Martin Kelly is another dependable backup who can be trusted for brief spots but isn’t really good enough for a starting berth, yet appears to be happy with his lot. Finally, this was Scott Dann’s second start of the season, having played against Grimsby Town in the last round, following his return from injury – while his layoff was not as long as Wickham’s it was still around a year, and in an interview with the Guardian in late 2018 explained how it had affected his mental health. This seems like an open goal of a joke but between the two of them Dann and Kelly kept Fernando Llorente incredibly quiet.
*In another low-key positive moment, Christian Benteke continued his return to fitness and while he didn’t score (let’s not be unrealistic here), he won five aerial duels in his 20 minutes on the field, which was more than anyone else in the entire game.
*There is no need for a redemption narrative for Julian Speroni, because he’s had worse games than he did against Liverpool last week, but it was great to see him talked about for the right reasons again. He has been a superb servant for the club, and by keeping Hotspur off the scoresheet – big assist from Kieran Tripper obviously – he is now the holder of Crystal Palace’s record for clean sheets – 112 in 405 games is not too shabby a record for anyone, and is incredible when you think he’s had Palace defenders in front of him the entire time.
*Next up for the Glaziers is a trip to Soton on Wednesday night. This is the start of an important (almost season-defining) run of games, so it’s encouraging that we’ve got players returning to form and fitness ahead of it. However, if there’s one thing you can rely on with Palace, it’s that when things start to feel good, they start to go bad.
Ed Quoththeraven